Ancient Ancestor's Conversation

The following is from a conversation on Ancient Ancestor's on Theology, Virtue and Spirituality on a Facebook forum.

Since many, however, of those who profess to believe in Christ differ from each other, not only in small and trifling matters, but also on subjects of the highest importance, as, e.g., regarding God, or the Lord Jesus Christ, or the Holy Spirit; and not only regarding these, but also regarding others which are created existences, viz., the powers(5) and the holy virtues;(6) it seems on that account necessary first of all to fix a definite limit and to lay down an unmistakable rule regarding each one of these, and then to pass to the investigation of other points. For as we ceased to seek for truth (notwithstanding the professions of many among Greeks and Barbarians to make it known) among all who claimed it for erroneous opinions, after we had come to believe that Christ was the Son of God, and were persuaded that we must learn it from Himself; so, seeing there are many who think they hold the opinions of Christ, and yet some of these think differently from their predecessors, yet as the teaching of the Church, transmitted in orderly succession from the apostles, and remaining in the Churches to the present day, is still preserved, that alone is to be accepted as truth which differs in no respect from ecclesiastical and apostolical tradition.---Origen, De Principis

No one hath seen God at any time; the Only-begotten Son, which is in the
bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him. The Deity, therefore, is
ineffable and incomprehensible. For no one knoweth the Father, save the
Son, nor the Son, save the Father. And the Holy Spirit, too, so knows the
things of God as the spirit of the man knows the things that are in him.
Moreover, after the first and blessed nature no one, not of men only, but
even of supramundane powers, and the Cherubim, I say, and Seraphim
themselves, has ever known God, save he to whom He revealed Himself.
God, however, did not leave us in absolute ignorance. For the knowledge of
God’s existence has been implanted by Him in all by nature. This creation,
too, and its maintenance, and its government, proclaim the majesty of the
Divine nature. Moreover, by the Law and the Prophets in former times
and afterwards by His Only-begotten Son, our Lord and God and Savior
Jesus Christ, He disclosed to us the knowledge of Himself as that was
possible for us. All things, therefore, that have been delivered to us by
Law and Prophets and Apostles and Evangelists we receive, and know,
and honor, seeking for nothing beyond these. For God, being good, is the
cause of all good, subject neither to envy nor to any passion. For envy is
far removed from the Divine nature, which is both passionless and only
good. As knowing all things, therefore, and providing for what is profitable
for each, He revealed that which it was to our profit to know; but what we
were unable to bear He kept secret. With these things let us be satisfied,
and let us abide by them, not removing everlasting boundaries, nor
overpassing the divine tradition.
---- John of Damascus

Father Aidan:
Thanks Fr Jay for the quote. Forgive me if I point out part of this quote near the last few lines which alludes to a "secret" aspect to the Christian Faith. John says,

"He revealed that which it was to our profit to know; but what we were unable to bear He kept secret."

You can read my random thoughts on the subject by looking for the article I posted on the Wall of this forum or by going to my blog site at: www.fraidanhix.blogspot.com

There does appear to be a secret aspect to Christianity in the earliest years. Of course, this was obviously abused and gave way to heretical forms of gnosticism. However, in the earliest strata it seems the common message of the Gospel of Salvation in Jesus Christ was shared with all; but that there were deeper aspects of the Gospel, the meat of the word as opposed to those who could only bear the milk of the word, that were reserved for those who had matured or been called to a deeper or more committed life.

Jesus himself says in several places that he only spoke in parables to the masses but to the disciples he explained the secret of the kingdom openly or that there were things he longed to shared but that they could not contain or bear them at that time. John, at the end of the Gospel also alludes that there were many more things that Jesus did and taught than could be written down.

Anyway....just some random thoughts that there is a delineation between those who are on milk and those who ready for meat.

Fr Jay:
maybe we need some "deeper", "meat" people to comment on this. :)

the whole theme of scriptural revelation is progressive revelations.
God did not reveal to adam, yet, some aspects of His personality. moreso, He did not clearly showed Himself to the Old Testament people His Trinitarian existence. at least as comprehesible as can be. yet, i believe they are adequate revelations of His Person.

can we say these O.T. guys are still on Milk?
would that make us ready for meat?

Father Aidan:
No, I wouldn't necessarily make such a distinction between Old Testament and New Testament Revelation being a comparative issue of milk and meat. There were many OT person's that did operate at a deeper level of spiritual and transformative understanding, such as Elija, Elisha, Daniel, and other prophets; but that is not the same thing as progressive revelation.

What the scriptures seem to refer to is that all are called to the common Gospel of Salvation in Jesus Christ (and yes, even here we are dealing with some kind of revelation, insight or illumination of the Gospel that produces faith unto salvation); but that there are deeper levels of transpersonal and transrational spiritual growth, transformation, that the new convert or nominal believer would only trip over and possibly cause them to stumble. We are possibly dealing with the secrets or mysteries of inner work and spiritual practices such as those as practiced by the desert fathers or monastics of Mt. Athos (Hesychasm)- meditation techniques such as the Jesus Prayer that is done in conjunction with breathing techniques and cardiac rhythms. These things are not taught to novices who do not have the spiritual or theological formation and maturity to discern between psychic experiences and those of the Divine Energies of God.

For example, many monastic who have experienced what they thought was the Uncreated Light or Taboric Light of Christ were actually led into Prelest or delusion because what they actually experienced was only the created light of their own inner man or imagion dei (image of God). But they were deluded into idolizing their own inner light. Such things necessitate years of spiritual practice under the guidance of a spirit filled and experienced Christian Elder or Spiritual Director.

St. John of the Cross clearly stated that during times of deep mediation monks or nuns were not to become attached to anything, even if the hear voices, see angels, levitate, or have prophetic words. To all experiences in meditation or the prayer of stillness one is to say "Nada, Nada" (not this, not this) and to simply rest in the silence of God's presence trusting that God is able to accomplish the deep work of healing and transformation without our thinking about it, attaching ourselves to the experience, etc.

This is one of the problems of the pentecostal and charismatic movements where people identify their gift, calling or ministry with God and idolizing these things. There must be discernment and non-attachment to anythings, giving all experiences to God.

So, there is need for being under the guidance of an experienced Christian elder or teacher. There are simply some things that babies in Christ will not understand, are not ready for, for as Christ said, they cannot contain them now. Such teachings, practices or experiences can prove destructive to them. A baby cannot eat meat but will choke and die. A baby needs milk or baby food, to eat and digest until they grow mature enough to do so.

Seriously though, where once such mystical dimensions of the spiritual life were reserved almost exclusively to monastic and hermits, there is a growing movement of both seekers and Christian's who are single or married and living in the world who are learning and practicing the contemplative/mystical dimensions of the Gospel. It is no longer reserved for the cloister but is being repackaged and made available for secular and domestic Christians, lay and clergy.

These teachings from early Christianity, the Church Fathers and Mothers, saints and mystics are being repackaged and made available for todays Christians. Many of the who have made strides in this area are: Fathers Thomas Merton, Thomas Keating, William Menninger, John Main, Dom Bede Griffiths, and Basil Pennington, etc.

Some of the specific forms and outreach organizations are: Centering Prayer & The Contemplative Outreach; Christian Meditation and the World Communion of Christian Meditators; and Christian Insight Meditation.

Another author is Kyriakos C. Markides who has written several books on Eastern Orthodox Spiritual Traditions of Mt. Athos. His books include:

The Mountain of Silence- A Search for Orthodox Spirituality
Gifts of the Desert: The Forgotten Path of Christian Spirituality
Riding with the Lion: In Search of Mystical Christianity

Although some of these authors go beyond traditional Christianity into Inter-religious Dialogue and cross traditional spirituality, there is more books, Christian teachers, and organizations to provide a framework and guidance for ordinary Christians living in the world.

We as clergy need to educate ourselves in these teachings and practices so we can be teachers and guides for seekers and believers on the journey; and be the filters for people so they do not become confused by the confusing array of such possibilities which could lead them astray or into New Age and Eastern forms of mysticisms. But if we don't do it, this lack, this vacuum in the conventional church world, will be a stumbling block for seekers and people who feel called to these deeper mysteries of personal transformation in Christ; and they will be more likely to stumble their way into false teachings.

We need to be there filters and teachers. Which means we must educate ourselves in and about these teachings and practices; and begin practicing them ourselves from a deeply rooted in the history, experience and tradition of Christian Contemplative and Mystical traditions and teachings.

I've been on this journey for over twenty years; an have been practicing various aspects of these spiritual practices and disciplines. I would be more than happy to help anyone I can on their journey. I am certainly no spiritual master! and am still on milk myself I am sure but any help I can give I am willing to do. Besides, if we dont, then people will go elsewhere to find help, and all too often its been in the New Age and Eastern religions. We must step up and do this.